At the end of the ping pong meetup I got a hold of Kevon and asked for his number for the future interview. He said that he could get Koretta , his girlfriend, to also participate. I was told that they both work at the same company and get home late, so I would have to schedule at a later time. Because of this I decided to do the interviews over skype. For the interview I tried to be professional and do the interview sitting at my kitchen table as opposed to laying in my bed. I was nervous because although they said it was okay to call at that time, since they’re working adults, I was afraid they might have gone to bed early and forgotten we had scheduled the call. So I texted in advanced just in case, to make sure they were ready for the call.
Upon answering the call I was surprised to see that they were very comfortable and not at all stiff, as I was. Kevon was laying on his bed in a white t-shirt watching a show on Amazon, called ”Sneaky Pete”. He said it was about a con man and recommended I watch it. Korreta was also dressed comfortably in a navy blue t-shirt and a leopard print headband, that hugged the root of her braids.
Kevon is a 34 year old Jamaican American, who grew up in brooklyn until he moved to springfield gardens, queens at the age of 10. His parents were christian but never declared an affiliation to a sect. He went to church mostly in elementary school, when they lived in brooklyn, but stopped going after they moved to Queens.He then started going again, towards high school when his mom went, but ceased at the age of 15. His parents were the superstitious type that blamed every negative occurrence on the devil. He claims that as a child, religion never made sense to him; he would argue about inconsistencies in the bible with friends at school, but there was no point in time where he could say the teachings convinced him to be a follower. I found his view on the inconsistencies interesting; I see it as something that I’ve thought of and agree with. He says “How do you create people who don’t know any better and expect them to know better. It’s like if they have no understanding of right and wrong how can you punish them for something that’s arbitrarily wrong. They simply did something they were told not to do for reasons they couldn’t have understood.” This is what he said in response to the Adam and Eve’s story. I then follow up with “what convinced him to be Atheist?” He said “A lot of people will sort of mix terms and they’ll say oh I’m agnostic, but if you don’t affirm a belief in any god, at least one, or even a vague belief, ‘of there is something out there?’ Then you’re an atheist.” With this statement I tried to argue with his definitive views. He claims he can only believe with proof but how could you argue that there is nothing if you can’t disprove its existence. I gave him the example of aliens, because we have yet to develop technology that can help us navigate the entire universe; so yes we have no proof they exist, but we haven’t explored far enough to deem their non-existence. He clapped back with “Well we don’t approach life that way with any other circumstance. If somebody told you they had a unicorn you wouldn’t. . .” This was hilarious to me because yes it sounds absurd but that definitive “it doesn’t exist” kind of mentality streams from pessimism. And I think that leading a life like that is depressing. This is because you hope for nothing unless it’s proven. If no one hoped that the impossible could be possible, then I don’t think we would have progressed in science and technology as much as we have. With that being said we discussed what he would like in a religion which is to be immortal. I told him that personally living forever would be sad, lonely, and boring. But he countered this with isn’t that what heaven is supposed to be, eternal life. “The leading explanation among atheists is that, we are one of the few species that understand death and we don’t like it, so we’ve created religion to say that death is not real.” As he continues to counter my arguments I think to myself that everything he says is justified and I completely understand why he would be atheist. But somehow I continue to believe; I just think that it’s not that god doesn’t exist, it’s just that the bible is incorrect or has been altered over time to support bigotry / tell a biased story, just as many history does today. For example when I asked him if anything in religion scares him he said “If it were real, it would scare me alot. If you look at the bible at this website called the ‘skeptics annotated bible’ they point out the inconsistencies and messed up parts of the bible. Specifically the parts that endorse slavery. People argue that it was a different time, but there was no point in time where owning people was cool. There are portions that say you can beat your slaves if they don’t die within 3 days.” This is an example of something that could’ve been altered over time. Whoever was the enslaver could have added this in. Since the Bible is so lengthy and not many people were literate, let alone read the entire thing or understood it, the followers could have easily been manipulated into believing that this is what god wanted. By spreading this message to uniformed believers through oral teachings, no one would ever know the difference. Kevon also disagrees with how religions affect on the world.“It’s created a world that I find sad and weird; like I’m in a twilight zone episode and people do things for reasons that don’t make any kind of sense. I mean like people vote based on their religion, to take other people’s rights away and that’s the saddest thing I can think of. People are zombies to their religions. These people have this belief and others have another, but they don’t have any type of evidence, yet they’re all willing to fuck each other over for it.” It’s unfortunate how religion has collected an audience that is ignorant and blindly let a book dictate their actions. For me religion has been something I can rely on when times get overwhelming, so I wondered what atheists look to for support, at their breaking points. Kevon looks at “Past experiences mostly. Like I’ve been through tough situations but I’m still here; I just keep telling myself I’ve seen bad days before. I mean I’m fine now.” To conclude the interview on a positive note I asked “what parts if any do you like about religion?” and he said “Charity, but charity is the result of societies inadequacies, because an equitable society doesn’t need charity.”
Dialog
Name? “Kevon cameron”
Age? “34”
Ethnicity? “Jamaican American”
Where you grew up ?
Kevon: “ We Moved to Brooklyn when I ?was barely 4 years old. Then we moved to a house in Queens when I was 10. Mostly springfield gardens.”
Parent/ previously practiced religion?
Kevon:“My parents were Christian they never stressed like, oh we’re baptist, or oh we’re Lutheran, it was always like just ah they’re Christian. When I was really young we went to church here and there. Mostly in elementary school they would send me and my brother. My father would work and my mother would sleep in and send me and my brother to church. That’s the way it was for a while until we moved to queens, then no one went to church. But when I got to high school my mother started going again and so would we. I don’t know if my parents identified with a denomination but they never stressed it, just general god stuff. “
What do you mean by general god stuff? Like what were some of the things you were told to do?
Kevon:“They were very superstitious.
Everything was blamed on the devil. If you had a cold or an itch bothered you too much it was the devil.”
Me: “My childhood was similar. My grandma was the one who would pick us up and take us but then she stopped because she lost sight in one eye. And my mom was too lazy to.”
When did you sever your affiliation with your previous religion/ how did you come to your decision / what events lead up to your mistrust/ disbelief? Kevon:“The stories never made sense to me, so I went to church up until I was 16; not even because my parents split up about 15. There was never a point where I would have said that I was a believer.”
You said your parents split up?
Kevon:“Yeah they were old school Jamaicans so their relationship always seemed to be a business rather than a relationship. I mean they were good at it; they moved here when I was 4, and became home owners before they became citizens. It never seemed like a loving marriage and I assumed my father got tired of it because he seemed like he’d want love. My mother I think was content. She was the type that does what society expects of her. She went to school, got married, had kids and that was enough.”
Me: It seems to me like you were never convinced.
Kevon: “No not really I would talk to my friends about the inconsistencies of Adam and Eve, but the difference was that for some reason they still believed.”
What are some of these things that you disagree with? Could you tell me about some of these inconsistencies?
Kevon: “How do you create people who don’t know any better and expect them to know better. It’s like if they have no understanding of right and wrong how can you punish them for something that’s arbitrarily wrong. They simply did something they were told not to do for reasons they couldn’t have understood.”
What convinced you that Atheism was the way to go?
Kevon:” A lot of people will sort of mix terms and they’ll say oh I’m agnostic, but if you don’t affirm a belief in any god, at least one, or even a vague belief, ‘of there is something out there?’ Then you’re an atheist.”
Me: “The argument that people make is for example we don’t have the technology to prove that aliens exist so maybe they don’t but you can disprove their existence either.”
Kevon: “Well we don’t approach life that way with any other circumstance. If somebody told you they had a unicorn you wouldn’t. . .”
Me:*laughs*
Kevon: “Like why does religion have this specific circumstance where you can just believe it without questioning. Although Aliens is a perfect example. We have religious texts that date thousands of years old , yet we have stories of living people who talk about aliens but we look at them like they’re crazy.”
Me: “Another example is how I believe in spirits and demons but I don’t seek out proof because I’d never want to encounter one. Like I would never try a ouija board.”
Kevon: “But we have evidence of nanoscopic particles like we can test these things. They’ve tested ouija boards, psychics, prayer at hospitals and it’s shown that they’re no better than chance”
Me: “What if these tests fail because they’re praying for the purpose of the experiment and there is no faith involved.”
Kevon: “Why is it wrong to try and prove it.”
At this point I kind of give up and say
Me: “well I think religion is fun and it gives me hope. Even though I’m being hypocritical because I don’t follow everything as it’s given; but then again you don’t take any advice word for word you kinda mold it into your own solution. So I’ve sculpted my own image of god without all of the disagreeable aspects. But I understand that then that’s not the point because it’s supposed to be followed as is. I’d rather believe in it, do good deeds, and possibly get into heaven. You could also argue that it can be done without religion.”
Kevon: “Yeah it’s called secular charity its popping up everywhere.”
Me: “I kind of lowkey can’t wait, I mean I don’t want to die but I wanna see what all the fuss was about.”
What would a religion have to contain to make you believe in it?
Kevon: “Any form of hard evidence. Let’s say there’s a muslim, christian, and jew telling me ‘follow my religion so you can be okay.’ How do I know which ones right?”
Inner thoughts
This interview made me see that I came into this off of a base of nothing, like I believe in this but why? I don’t have to.
Do you believe in hell and heaven?
Kevon:“I have no evidence to believe like where were you before you were born.”
Me: “So you just believe in oblivion?
I wonder if we’d be like souls with no body and just memories.”
Kevon: “I think this is where I differ from a lot of the prominent activists. Like there’s a guy that I met that always says ‘life is precious because is limited’ but I disagree I believe life is inherently valuable but it tends to be more precious because it limited. I would love to live forever or in some form, some kind of consciousness.”
Me: Like forever in what context?
Me: ”Becauses if everyone is dying around you that wouldn’t be enjoyable. If everyone lived forever then there would be no point in creating new life because we’d just over populate.”
Kevon: “I’m not saying there aren’t problems I just don’t want to die.”
Me: “I’m not really scared to die . I’m more scared of how I die I would like it to be painless. If there is heaven and hell I would hope that I go to heaven because I don’t want to burn for eternity. I think if I’m satisfied with what i’ve achieved in life in terms of leisure, career, and love life. I wouldn’t mind dying at the average age of natural death. So i’m not afraid to die if its not early or horrifically painful. I personally would never want to be immortal; like at some point life is enough,like you’re tired, you don’t wanna do anything anymore, it gets boring. Even though you could say as times change there will always be new and entertaining things but that’s still not enough. I strongly believe that everything in excess is bad.”
Kevon:“But the whole point of religion is that people believe that there is an afterlife. Because they can’t except death and heaven is eternal. But if life gets boring as you say it does, won’t heaven get that much boring.”
Me: *Laughs* “See we’ve never experienced perfection so supposedly, we’ll never get bored, we’ll never be hungry. But then what would we do in heaven.
This is depressing haha.”
Kevon: “I’m sorry” *shy smile*
Me: *Laughs* “No it’s fine”
Kevon: “The leading explanation among atheists is that we are one of the few species that understand death and we don’t like it so we’ve created religion to say that death is not real.”
Kevon:“So then why is suicide a sin. if heaven is so great and life on earth pales in comparison / is so finite. Why aren’t people lining up to kill themselves to go to heaven. Why do people cry when their relatives die if they’re going to heaven. “
Me: “I think because they don’t get to see them anymore and two it’s not guaranteed that you get into heaven. We’re judged by our actions on earth. For example in school If students can behave in class then they won’t be taken on a trip. Then there’s the argument of who’s worthy and who’s not worthy. If god knew we were going to sin then why were we created.”
Me: Is there any aspect of religion that would be dope if it was real?
Kevon: “ I mean i’ve made my peace with death. I know it’s gonna happen and it’ll be sad, but if there was any religion that would let me live even in consciousness, I would like that. Koretta always says that I don’t do drugs because I like to be in control. Which I agree with because, I just like thinking, or being in my head even if my thought are stupid; I just like consciousness and I think a lack consciousness is sad.”
Out of all the religions that exist today which do you agree with most even if you’re not a follower?
Kevon: “I’ve thought about this but wickens, from what I understand about it, seem to actually care about the earth. Although I’m not really on board with the magic part.”
Is there anything about religion that scares you?
Kevon:“If it were real it, would scare me alot. If you look at the bible at this website called the ‘skeptics annotated bible’ they point out the inconsistencies and messed up parts of the bible. Specifically the parts that endorse slavery. People argue that it was a different time, but there was no point in time where owning people was cool. There are portions that say you can beat your slaves if they don’t die within 3 days.”
How has religion or its presence affected your life?
Kevon: It’s created a world that I find sad and weird; like i’m in a twilight zone episode and people do thing for reasons that don’t make any kind of sense. I mean like people vote based on their religion to take other people’s rights away and that’s the saddest thing I can think of. People are zombies to their religions. These people have this belief and others have another, but they don’t have any type of evidence, yet they’re all willing to fuck each other over it.
Was it ever something on your mind when making certain decisions?
Kevon:Yeah I mean not in like a what would jesus do type of way but yeah sure. A friend of mine that I work for is someone that is really religious. But he doesn’t know that i’m not religious and I can’t tell him. Normally I’m outspoken but I’m not gonna go around preaching to people that their beliefs are stupid. Like I like arguing about it but at work its off limits, because I would make it awkward for koretta. I work for her uncle and they don’t know that she’s an atheist. She said she’s going to tell them one day but they’re gonna blame me saying I brainwashed her.
Me:“Oh no”
Kevon:*Shrugs shoulders*
“She should’ve told them before she met me.”
What do you think about or look to when your in danger/scared or in stressful situations to give you hope/support if not god?
Kevon:“Past experiences mostly. Like I’ve been through tough situations but I’m still here; I just keep telling myself I’ve seen bad days before. I mean I’m fine now.”
Me: “I don’t know I like to see how much I can handle. Like whenever I’m in stressful situations I kinda laugh it off, like ‘you’re great, you’re fine. It could be worse, you got this,’ and then it blows over.Then afterwards I’m like ‘wow that was really bad but you got through it.’ I just find certain situations amusing like life has its ups and downs. If not life gets boring. For example I compare it to a balance of leisure and work. Like when you’re in school you’re like I can’t wait for summer, but when summer hits, you’ve already binged every show possible, and are bored out of your mind. Then when someone asks you to run an errand for them you appreciate the change in pace. Not to say that bad things should happen, but I just love everything about life, I appreciate every moment even the bad moments. I just look back and laugh.
What specific parts of your past religion in general do you disagree with?
Kevon:“Mostly I disagree with a lot of the ways people are treated. Even if all the stories were real I just feel like I couldn’t be on board with the religion based on how certain people were treated.”
Do you feel that religion should not exist? If so why or why not?
Kevon:I don’t think it should be forced out of existence, but humanity would be better off without it. People will disagree and say that there will still be a lot of problems. Well of course, but that’s like saying oh we got rid of cancer, but we still have heart disease diabetes ect. Like there will still be problems but religions a big problem it kills a lot of people.
What do you think are some negative effects of religion on society youth/adults/govt.?
Kevon:“People use laws to take away other people’s rights.
Youth feels really guilty for having normal thoughts like sex.”
What parts if any do you like about religion or your original religion/parents religion?
Kevon:Charity but charity is the result of societies inadequacies, because an equitable society doesn’t need charity.
1hr ½ of Interview dialog.
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